Posted by: cousinbrandon | March 3, 2010

LOST – Season 6, Episode 6: “Sundown”

I won’t lie to you: I had a few drinks before last night’s episode. What’s more, I watched a DVR-ed version of “Sundown” at a friends’ house, thus cutting into my extra note-taking time during commercials. My friends? That was no problem. I just ignored them and scribbled away. I do wonder, though, if these factors played in my role in my not thinking “Sundown” was all that great. Frankly, anything may have been a letdown after last week’s “Lighthouse.” And who knows? Maybe in the writing of this recap I’ll feel otherwise. Hell, already a theory just now popped into my head as I’m typing this, so maybe I’m being overly critical. We’ll see. Now then, let’s begin with…

1. Big Love. 

Sayid arrives by taxi to a house in a rather familiar looking neighborhood, flowers in hand. (And I say familiar because I’m pretty certain Locke and Helen’s house is right across the street, but I digress.) Sayid approaches the front door where we are given our “flash-sideways mirror moment” for the episode (i.e. Sayid sees his reflection in the pane of glass on the front door of the house). The front door opens to reveal Nadia (natch), only here she is not Sayid’s wife; she is his sister-in-law (un-natch). Clearly Sayid is very much in love with his brother’s wife, who is still very much in love with him. From there we cut to…

2. The Brawl.

Sayid marches through the temple directly into Dogen’s quarters. He insists Dogen explain about the dust, and why he was being tortured. Dogen explains about the scale, about balance on the island in terms of good and evil. In further explaining the results of the test, Dogen proclaims, “I think it would be best if you were dead.” Sayid, barely fazed, responds, “I’m a good man,” before attacking Dogen. The two battle Matrix-style, which in a sense was kind of cool considering Sayid’s military background and Dogen’s – well, he just looks like he could kick ass. Dogen is on the verge of killing Sayid when he sees that the baseball has fallen off its axis, startling hm. He lets up and tells Sayid to leave and never come back. Outside of the temple we find…

3. “Beware all ye who enter.” Yeah, I guess that’s sort of pirate-esque. Feels right. FLocke and Claire stand outside of the temple, just beyond a circle of ash. (Clearly, that shit’s still FLocke’s Kryptonite.) FLocke convinces Claire that she needs to enter, and she reluctantly agrees in order to get Aaron back, who she believes is inside. FLocke is clearly manipulating Claire, as he knows Aaron isn’t there. Again, because he cannot yet enter himself, he gets Claire to act as his pawn. From there we cut sideways to…

4. The Favor. Omer wakes Sayid in the middle of the night and explains that he borrowed money from some unsavory gentlemen. He pleads with Sayid to “convince” these men to leave him alone, as he fears for his life as well as the lives of Nadia and his children. “I know what kind of man you are,” he tells Sayid, which is a familiar line, thematically and literally, in LOST. I mean, here again is a statement in which the characters’ roles are being defined. In many ways, LOST’s characters are archetypal, and we can identify them (and identify with them) because of it. Interestingly, Sayid responds by saying, “I’m not that man anymore.” This seems consistent with his post-island life, as well, in which he was working as a missionary building houses. That is, Sayid has always been trying to escape his past (like all of the Losties, for that matter). Sometimes it seems as though they make these statements not for the sake of others, but for themselves. Sayid says this to remind/convince himself. He needs to believe he’s “not that man anymore” in order to escape where he came from, so to speak. I’ll get further into this at the end of the post. Speaking of Sayid, we return to…

5. Concentrated Evil.

(And if you don’t get the Time Bandits reference, shame on you.) Sayid walks through the courtyard where he finds Miles, and explains that he’s been banished. Miles is still in shock, as he explains that Sayid was literally dead. Just then, Claire enters the temple, yet Miles and Sayid don’t make a peep, which drove me kind of nuts. I mean, when’s the last time you saw Claire, for fuck’s sake?! Isn’t that just as crazy as watching Sayid come back from the dead?! Claire tells Dogen he is to go to FLocke, yet Dogen refuses. Claire is taken prisoner and Dogen explains that she is “confused.” He wants Sayid to join him, as “things have changed.” Sayid is, of course, distrustful, seeing as how Dogen just killed him moments ago, and nearly killed him again. (Yeah, I’d likely be wary, too.) Dogen explains that FLocke is “evil incarnate,” and he wants Sayid to kill him using the knife/dagger he hands him. He warns Sayid not to let FLocke speak to him first, but to simply kill him. We then jump sideways to…

6. Paging Dr. Shephard. Sayid walks his niece and nephew to the bus. Now, I believe Sayid explains that he will be leaving for Toronto for work. (Two questions: was it Toronto? I can’t read my notes. Also, any significance to Toronto? In last week’s episode, Christian’s casket was in Berlin. Any significance there?) Just then Sayid learns Omer’s in the hospital, as he has obviously been beaten by those he borrowed money from. Sayid and Nadia make their way through the hospital (where they are passed in the hall by none other than Dr. Jack Shephard). Nadia realizes why Omer is in this situation, but pleads with Sayid not to seek revenge against these people. We return to…

7. The Golden Rule of The Lost Boys.

Sayid is trekking through the jungle when he encounters Kate, who returns to the temple. She speaks to Miles who tells her that Claire has returned, and Kate is, well, stoked. Meanwhile, Sayid continues to walk through the jungle when a steady wind passes through, followed by the clickety-clack sound associated with none other than Smokey, who then appears to Sayid in the form of FLocke. (Now, this is rather important, as many of you speculated that Smokey was now trapped in the guise of Locke, per Ilana’s statement. Furthermore, many of you speculated that’s why FLocke couldn’t catch up to the ghost boy (who I still say is Aaron) in the jungle. This only proves that I was correct in wondering why in the hell FLocke didn’t pursue the ghost boy as Smokey, thus allowing him to move much faster?! Is this a misstep by the writers or am I missing something?) FLocke greets Sayid, but before Sayid responds he removes the knife and plunges it into FLocke (much like Ben plunged the knife into Jacob). FLocke simply removes the knife and almost comically asks, “Now why’d you go and do that?” This whole thing kind of reminded me of the whole Lost Boys (ummmm, LOST boys!) thing about vampires only being allowed into your home if invited. In other words, because FLocke spoke first, he wasn’t fazed by the stabbing. We’re not going anywhere actually, but staying right here with…

8. The Last Temptation of Sayid.

FLocke returns the knife to Sayid, who explains that Dogen called him “evil incarnate.” FLocke says Sayid had no chance of killing him, and he was sent there by Dogen to die. FLocke asks Sayid to join him, and tempts him by asking him what it is, if anything in the world, he wants. Clearly Sayid wants Nadia back, but points out to FLocke that he can’t have what he wants (which is his dead wife back). FLocke then asks, “What if you could?” This conversation is important for a lot of reasons. First, we’ve now seen FLocke play on the greatest desires of his recruits in order to get them to follow him. With Sayid, he has (essentially) promised Nadia; with Claire, he has promised to return her to Aaron; and with Sawyer, he has promised to get him off the island. Now, what if he really can deliver on all these things, only in order to do so what one common thing must happen? They must not have come to the island. And in an alternate reality, perhaps they never did. In other words, maybe FLocke is putting the merging of these timelines in motion, wherein Sawyer never came to the island, Claire is with Aaron, and Sayid is with Nadia. Perhaps I’m oversimplifying it, but I have to believe that these two timelines will, at some point, merge. Second, this scene is pretty awesome because it reminded me of Ben speaking to Locke about the magic box. I’m struggling to remember which episode that was, but I think it was season 3 when Ben told Locke to imagine a box, and in that box anything he wanted to be there could appear. Sure enough, Anthony Cooper (Locke’s dad) “appeared” on the island. The constant similarities and repetition of scenes and dialogue are among my favorite motifs on LOST (well, except for the whole “Live together, die alone” bullshit, which drives me nuts). We then flash sideways to…

9. The Tortured Soul. Sayid is repairing a vase. Omer is awake and recovering from surgery. Nadia, who is still very much in love with Sayid in this reality, wants to know why Sayid pushed her away. Sayid, quite emotionally, explains that he doesn’t deserve her. Again, we can translate that on so many levels. Is she simply that good, or is he simply that unwilling to forgive his past transgressions as a torturer? We jump back to…

10. The Return of Lazarus. Somehow that seems redundant. Anyway, Sayid returns to Dogen and says that there is a man in the jungle. Sayid tells Dogen that Jacob is dead, and that they have until sundown to leave or they will all die. Cindy and the rest of the temple dwellers want to make tracks now that Jacob’s dead, yet Dogen pleads with them to stay. In another part of the temple, we find…

11. The Woman at the Top of the “To-Kill” List.

No, not that Kate. Kate finds and attacks Lennon, insisting he take her to Claire. He does so, where we find Claire in the bottom of a pit singing “Catch a Falling Star,” which we’ve heard repeatedly on LOST. If memory serves, Kate used to sing that to Aaron. Also, I’m thinking that song was playing in the car when Kate and Aaron went to visit Sawyer’s ex-woman, Cassidy. Kate quite happily explains that she took and raised Aaron, thinking Claire will be appreciative. Clearly, though, Claire is incensed and prepared to stab Kate in the face. (Hmmm, I think a good deal of the audience would like to do the same thing.) Kate says she’s there to rescue Claire, but in a rather creepy, yet awesome delivery, Claire says, “I’m not the one who needs to be rescued, Kate.” She goes on to say, “He’s coming, Kate, and they can’t stop him.” I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m digging Claire as a nutjob. She’s much more interesting. We then flash sideways to…

12. Gettin’ the Freighter Crew Back Together. A car arrives at Nadia’s house. Out steps a man who tells Sayid he knows who he is, and to come with him. Clearly these are the heavies to whom Omer owes money. (And by the way, correct me if I’m wrong but was that Omar, the mercenary on the freighter who was Keamy’s right-hand man?) Sayid is marched through a restaurant kitchen where we find none other than Martin Keamy, head Kahana mercenary, cooking eggs. Keamy asks about Omer, but before things can go much further, Sayid manages to free himself from his assailant, get his gun, and find himself in the position of power. A desperate Keamy tells Sayid Omer’s debt is forgiven, and essentially begs for his life. Sayid, in all his typical Sayid-ness, shoots and kills Keamy regardless. Sayid then hears a noise coming from the restaurant’s walk-in. He opens it to find a bound and gagged Jin, who simply says, “No English.” A couple of things here. First, it seems that despite the obvious differences in this timeline (Sayid and Nadia not being together, namely), this version of Sayid isn’t much different than the “real” Sayid. Both clearly have a past life consisting of killing and, likely, torturing. In the other characters’ alternate timelines, we’ve seen truly different versions of them. Sayid’s past seems, well, similar to his actual past. Hmmm. Also, because Jin was being held captive by Keamy, what does this have to do with the money in his luggage at the airport? Who is Keamy representing/working for, and how is Jin’s money and Omer’s loan tied together? Who is the “big man” funder? Still Widmore? We then jump sideways to…

13. Underwater Explosions. Okay, I just wanted to get the title of a Guided By Voices song in there, as I’ve got them on the brain. Dogen is sitting by the temple spring, holding his baseball. Sayid lies and tells Dogen he stabbed FLocke before FLocke spoke to him. Dogen reveals some of his past to Sayid, telling him he was a banker in Osaka (Japan). One night, after he’d been out celebrating with co-workers, he got drunk and had a car accident, injuring his son. While in the hospital, a man visited Dogen to tell him he could save his son’s life, but he would never be able to see him again. That man, of course, was Jacob. He then explains that the man outside (FLocke) made a similar offer. (So, who is Dogen’s son? I mean, yes, we saw his son in “Lighthouse,” but does he have any greater significance? Also, knowing that Dogen was a banker in Osaka who had a drunk driving accident sort of dates him, no? In other words, he isn’t an ageless wonder who’s been on the island his entire life. Interesting.) Sayid listens to this intently, only to heave Dogen into the spring and drown him (ironically). Lennon finds Dogen there and is equal parts outraged and scared, pointing out that Sayid’s brought a world of hurt upon them. Sayid appears to know how this will unfold, and slash’s Lennon’s throat. In other words, he has opened the doors, so to speak, for FLocke. Meanwhile in the temple, we have the return of…

14. Ilana, Her Gang, and an Army of Darkness.

Ilana enters the temple with Lapidus, Sun and Ben. Kate, meanwhile, wants Claire to leave with her, only Claire wants to stay. With that, FLocke (in the form of Smokey) charges through the temple, destroying those in his path. Ben finds Sayid and wants him to come with them, only Sayid isn’t having any of that. In fact, Sayid practically looks possessed, so much so that it’s as if he’s been inhabited by Smokey. Still, if he really is “infected,” he sure as fuck looks it here. Miles points out to Sun that Jin has been looking for her. (Might we actually see these two reunite? I have to wonder now, seeing as how Jin has been in the care of Claire, whereas Sun is likely still in the Jacob camp. It would be nice to see them on opposite sides of the fence.) Ilana finds the glyph on the temple wall, the same one Hurley pushed open to reveal the secret passage and make his way into the jungle with Jack. Fortunately, she and the gang reveal the passageway just before Smokey can roll over them like so much death. Claire and Sayid exit the temple, and in the background is a faint hint of “Catch a Rising Star” (again) during the slo-mo camera shot of all the bodies left in Smokey’s wake. It is, in fact, an awesome scene! Claire and Sayid join up with FLocke and his gang of temple dwellers, all of whom are now on board as sundown has come and gone, their lives spared by their decision to join Team FLocke. And who should join them at episode’s end but Kate, who approaches this zombie-like hoard of evil in a skeptical manner, yet somehow appropriately fitting among them. Really, really creepy. Just wanted to take a quick look at the title, or more specifically…

15. Sunrise, Sunset. By no means is it accidental, the title of this week’s episode, particularly in balance/contrast to last week’s episode, “Lighthouse.” The writers brilliantly bookended the literal and figurative notion of light and darkness with these two episodes, most overtly through their titles. A lighthouse is a beacon. It is literally the light in a sea of darkness. It is the promise of safe passage. It is home. It is life. Sundown, or night, on the other hand, is a metaphor for death. In literature, when the sun goes down it is a symbol of ending, of a life that has reached its conclusion. Think, for instance, of Frost’s poem “Stopping By Woods On a Snowy Evening,” which ends with the following stanza:

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

Here the speaker, who is completing his “chores” via horse and carriage in the middle of the night, references not just his need to complete his work, but his need to fulfill his life’s responsibilities before he may sleep (ie, die). He is working on the “darkest evening of the year.” Themes of light and darkness are not only ridiculously common in literature, but ridiculously common in LOST. Now, if we apply this Lighthouse/Sundown notion to what we’ve just witnessed the past two weeks, perhaps we can speculate that aligning one’s self with Jacob is choosing “life,” whereas aligning one’s self with FLocke/Smokey/MiB is choosing “death.” To think of it another way, consider it a spiritual decision in which the soul is or is not corrupted. In the case of Jack, Hurley, et al. there is a hope of something good, of something positive, of a spiritual change for the better. Perhaps we’re seeing in folks like Sayid and Claire who have been “infected” that their souls are beyond repair. Sayid has said that he should have died after being shot, and that he was prepared to go. In this episode, he told Nadia he didn’t deserve her. Sayid’s soul is irreparable. And maybe this is why his flash-sideways really wasn’t all that different from his actual reality. Perhaps Claire’s soul is beyond repair, too, in that she essentially abandoned Aaron. Perhaps this action is unforgivable, as well. I still think, though, that Sawyer’s soul can be saved, and that he is in the process of conning FLocke. He will ultimately end up on the side of Team Jacob.

Well, as I figured, I think I liked “Sundown” more after writing about it. I tried desperately this morning to re-watch the episode, as I couldn’t make out nearly a third of my notes. Hopefully I didn’t miss to match in this recap. So, until next time, have at it, you vultures!




  1. I must admit as things start coming together, I’m getting more and more disappointed.

    RIP temple. No really, RIP!

    It’s gotten cartoonish and not in the fun, Spongebob way.

    The best thing about last night was the look on SmokeyJohn’s face when Kate emerged from the temple and the last shot of them walking away, all slo-mo.

    I miss the anticipation I felt after having seen the stone feet for the first time and wondering what the story behind them was and knowing things were so much deeper than I could have imagined.

    The temple with its double-secret panels and pits and only sometimes magic water and studio lighting is a symptom of creative malaise and I fear the satisfying conclusion I’d hoped for is falling into a contrived mess of storylines driven more by actors other obligations and the writers having to think on the fly of a reason to off them.

    I still get Lostiggity on Tuesdays.

    I hope they prove me wrong in the coming shows.

    • That’s funny, lafix, because I’m not feeling at all disappointed. What I mean is that there had to be an eventual endpoint, which means that the writers would be forced to wrap things up at some point. Now, I think if you want to take issue with the pacing, by all means. Having to GET to that endpoint in only 16 episodes after circling around it for five seasons could certainly make things, well, forced. So far, though, I’m okay with how they’re handling this. As always, I’ve always gone along with the ride and gave the writers the benefit of the doubt in assuming they’d get us where we were meant to go.

      Yes, I agree with you that the temple doesn’t strike me as “mythical” but actually comical, but that’s more of a set design issue. We could just allow for it to be a bit weaker, but considering how much of LOST has revolved around the temple in terms of it being a safe-haven and magical place, yeah, it’s a bit of a letdown.

    • I also agree with Cousin B’s take – I’m not sure how you wrap things up in a more satisfactory way, considering that the show has a set end time this year. I suppose I could complain that the episode count is only in the teens vs. the 20s (IIRC), but at the rate that they’re answering long-standing questions, I think there is a chance they answer just about every major LOST question anyway.

      Brandon, are you going to be on Daves of our Life at all to talk LOST? Or to read some poetry?

      • Well, Steve G., I suppose that’s up to the Daves. With any luck, indeed. I can’t wait to hear Feeney write a poem in my honor.

  2. alright my man, since e-mailing you my foggy observations doesn’t cut it anymore, here you are:

    i’ll be honest, i just quickly skimmed through that bitch. didn’t dig the episode very much and don’t really give two shits about every little detail of the show… but i was pretty stoked to see the “christ” poster on your blog. i kept thinking of that movie through the whole episode and not just for the sayid storyline. lenny and i got to thinking last night… this whole concept of the alternate story lines is pretty damn familiar. what if each character is being set up for their own moment of decision a la the lord and savior in “last temptation.”

    the writers get to fuck around, come up with all these “what if” scenarios for the main characters had they not crashed, and ultimately this leads to each of them having an opportunity to either accept the alternate life (jack w/ his son, sayid w/ his bro’s wife, probably sawyer w/ his daughter, i.e. the christ/ mary magdalene hook up) or go back to the island (i.e. dying on the cross) and… and, well, fuck if i know. die? become shepherds of the island? eat fucking mangoes and fish.

    basically, you’ve got your candidates as the christly figures, and jacob and his counterpart as the angel/ devil over the shoulders.

    • You make a lot of really interesting observations here, crohrer666. What do the rest of you think?

  3. Wasn’t Dogen’s son actually killed in the accident? I feel like it was implied, heightening the duality and similarity of Jacob/Flocke promising to bring back dead people for Dogen/Sayid? Two sides of a hypothetical coin.

    Also, I might want to disagree with you on the fact that Sayid is the same in both universes. He refuses his little Faustian choice, to save/win/have Nadia by killing the mobsters (although he had to later, but that was in self-defense, so totally different), but in the Island world, not only does he willingly kill to get her back, he kills a lot of people. Innocent people. Kids (possibly, if they didn’t have the balls to get the hell out of there). He goes total psycho. He’s a bad bad man.

    • I think their was some ambiguity there, a. I, too, initially thought that’s where the story was going; that Dogen’s son was killed in the accident. Again, this is something the writers have fucked up a bit. Ben, for instance, wasn’t dead, yet was supposedly “revived” via the spring. I have to assume that Dogen’s child was on death’s door and was also revived via the spring. The thing is, who is Dogen’s son? Wouldn’t he be “infected”? Did Dogen ever unknowingly see him again? Is he still on the island? Is his son (somehow) MiB/FLocke/Smokey? (That would be pretty awesome, actually.)

      I disagree with you on Sayid, as well, in that in the flash-sideways world, he brutally murdered Martin “Christopher Walken” Keamy when he didn’t have to do so. He executed him, essentially. That, to me, does not reek of a changed man.

      • You say “execute” I say “being proactive.” Sayid knew that Walken-wannabe had no beef threatening kids, so, to save them, and Lydia, and his idiot brother, he had to kill whats-his-face. No two thoughts about it. I would have done the same thing but you don’t go see me running around drowning people and letting crazed smoke monsters in to slaughter lots of people.


        And going back to Dogen’s son – Jacob said that he could save him, but that doesn’t necessarily imply by means of the dirty pool. It was said that Dogen had to go to the island, and never see his son again, which means that the son stayed behind? He’s obviously not there.

        • I think I must have missed that, as far as Dogen being told he had to go to the island.

          As far as your point on Sayid, nope, I don’t agree. Sorry. Look, even Nadia forewarned him not to do it, yet Sayid did it anyway. Why? Because it’s his nature. Because he’s a killer. You mean to tell me he couldn’t have held Keamy at gunpoint and called the cops? He didn’t have to shoot him.

  4. – The thing about Sayid, I think, is that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

    He was going to go and find out who hurt Omer and was only temporarily stopped. When he was “good,” he was a killer who shot a little boy and stabbed someone in the heart before he knew who or what they were. He might have been a killer for what he believed to be the right reasons, but he was still a killer. With MK Ultra and Dogen, he killed for the “wrong” or selfish reasons. But he was always a killer, nevertheless, and Ben’s original assessment of him when Ben was posing as Henry Gale was accurate.

    It actually makes one wonder if Sayid wasn’t infected, would the scale still tip towards evil?

    – Kate isn’t fully on board with FLocke. The look he gave her, and the look she had on her face were both very similar and they were leery of each other.

    – What the hell does FLocke have in that backpack, and where were Sawyer and Jin during all of this?

    – Two things that bothered me… Jacob said it was too late to warn the people at the temple. He couldn’t have had Hurley give them a quick warning BEFORE he left with Jack? Does Jacob really care that little about them? Also, why didn’t Ilyana just speak up when trying to enter the door Miles was blocking? I’m pretty sure he would’ve moved out the way.

    – Jacob healing Dogen’s son reminded me that Jacob was also supposed to have healed Julliet’s sister of cancer. Did we ever find out if this actually happened either?

    • That’s the thing with Sayid, MM: he was never good. Not really. Sure, he’s been heroic and chivalrous in various moments, but when was he ever good?

      And by the way, considering Sayid’s feelings for her, it seems that Sayid hasn’t lost much sleep over Shannon. I mean, it just seems a bit strange that Nadia has been portrayed as his one and only love, and yet Sayid seemed to fall in love with Shannon. I wonder if the writers just needed to drum up some additional romance storylines back in the first season.

      No, I don’t think Kate is FULLY on board just yet, but I also feel like her alliances could go either way. And it this point, seeing as how Claire is going with FLocke, that’s where Kate is going, too.

      Not sure where Jin is, but if my hunch is correct, Sawyer is hanging back to work on his long con.

      If memory serves, Juliet’s sister, Rachel, had her baby and, yes, she survived.

  5. Did anyone else think that the look on Kate’s face when the smoke monster flew over her and Claire was of almost enlightenment? Like she saw something in that smoke (Which we’ve seen before I think?) that changed her view? Maybe it’s just Kate being a bad actor.

    Also, I was really annoyed by Sayid and Miles not caring about seeing Claire at all. Especially Sayid. But after I thought about it, maybe he already knew something of her since he was infected. Maybe they had some sort of connection and he knew she was coming. I thought this at the end of the episode when they walked out of the temple together and again didn’t say a word to each other. I may also just be trying to justify something that bugged me.

    I didn’t really like this episode. I never really like Sayid episodes as I really dislike his character anyway. I’m hoping for a Ben episode next week and he said in an interview one would be coming up. Last thing, Ilana and crew ditched Ben. Uh oh.

    • I didn’t really pick up on the Kate thing, Manderson, but I need to watch the episode again. As I pointed out, I wasn’t wild about “Sundown,” either. It wasn’t awful, but it wasn’t really all that special. Honestly, I think I was already over the temple itself, so another episode with so much set at the temple didn’t interest me. Don’t get me wrong: I’ve always loved Sayid, and I think Dogen is great. But after last week’s episode, this was a letdown.

      And if you look at my review, you’ll notice I also questioned the lack of interest in seeing Claire.

  6. So to throw some of my thoughts/comments in:

    1. Dogen’s son- I got the feeling that Dogen’s son did die in the accident (hence Dogen being so broken up about it) but that Jacob did indeed “revive” him the same way that he revived Locke after Locke’s dad pushed him out of the window. Pretty sure Locke was dead there but Jacob brought him back to life. So, no magical water pool was used and I would guess that Dogen’s son was fine. Now, whether or not Dogne’s son is “special”, no idea.

    2. Sayid/Nadia- My opinion in the flash sideways is that Sayidjust felt that he wasn’t worthy of her since he had done such terrible things and felt that he wasn’t deserving of any true happiness in his life. I don’t think it’s that she’s too good for him.

    Also, I agree that Sayid keep saying he’s a good man is to try to convince himself of this since deep down he doesn’t believe it. Just think back to the scene where he’s asking Hurley where he (Sayid) is going to end up after he dies. Sayid basically admits that he’s going to hell if there is one, even if he is truly sorry whay he did in the past.

    Furthermore, both versions of Sayid seem to be the same that they both were in Republican guard and were torturers but now want to redeem themselves.

    3. Claire/Kate- Was I alone in thinking that Claire was going to lash out at Kate once Kate revealed that she had Aaron? I really thought that when kate jumped into the pit that Claire was going to attack her. Plus, why didn’t Kate tell her that she left Aaron with Claire’s mother? Would have loved to see Claire’s reaction knowing that Aaron was with his true family.

    4. Sayid/Locke- I thought the whole point for don’t let Locke talk was just so Locke didn’t have a chance to “convert” Sayid to his side. Guessing that Dogen thought that if Sayid just attacked Flocke that Flocke would immediately kill him without saying anything. I don’t think Flocke sneaking up from behind Sayid and saying “hello” made Flocke invincible to Sayid’s knife attack.

    5. Sayid/Dogen- I’m not really sure why Dogen didn’t kill Sayid when given the chance. It’s almost like he wasn’t allowed to and had to have someone else do it. I definitely wasn’t expecting Sayid to jump him at the end and go all crazy but I guess it makes sense since there is only so many times that someone can try to kill you before you get revenge. I did enjoy that scene just seeing Sayid go all jihad on them. It was also interesting to note that Flocke was the one that brought Sayid back to life, or at least that was my interpretation.

    Question here is that how was Dogen keeping Flocke out? Did Flocke enter through the pool and if so, then why couldn’t he enter that way before?

    6. Sayid/Keamy/Jin- Got to admit that I didn’t recognize Keamy right away but I knew the face just not who he was in the island version. No idea what the connection to Jin is.

    7. Ilana and crew- I loved Ben’s expression when he saw Sayid’s face and just knew he was “gone”. But my question is, how does Ben escape the wrath? He wasn’t with the group that went through the secret passage. At least, I don’t remember seeing him so how did he manage to survive?

    Also, an interesting note here, if the young boy told Flocke that he couldn’t kill Sawyer, does that mean that Flocke also couldn’t have killed any of our other remaining Losties like Jack, Hugo, Kate, Sun, or Jin?

    8. Flcoke’s Army- where did he get all of those people? I’m guessing they weren’t the temple dwellers that crossed the line. It appeared to me that he had his own private small army going there. Kate just sort of joined them reluctantly only because she would have been killed otherwise and she’s just trying to survive right now.

    Think that’s all for right now.

    • 1. I’m still not sure about Dogen’s son, dochielomn. Again, I initially thought he’d died, but I’m not yet sure.

      2. Right, I think he was saying he didn’t deserve her because he is guilt-ridden and loathes himself.

      4. You could be right on the FLocke not talking thing, but it seemed so intentional, Dogen’s telling Sayid not to let him talk. Otherwise, why not just say, “He will try to convince you to join him; don’t let him.”

      5. It seemed Smokey was still being kept out by the ring of ash outside of the temple. I’m guessing that once Dogen was murdered, Smokey had free reign and could enter. Whether or not that had anything to do with Dogen dying in the spring, I don’t know.

      8. FLocke’s army is composed either of the temple folk like Cindy, the other people who were on the beach with Ilana and co. who FLocke was “very dissapointed in,” or perhaps a combination of both?

      • 4. See, I think Dogen said “don’t let him talk” is just more of him not wanting Sayid to try to talk to FLocke and then have FLocke recruit him and then not pull the trigger on stabbing him. I think Dogen didn’t want FLocke to talk to Sayid just because it would lead to Sayid listening to what he has to say.

        5. My question is had Sayid not killed Dogen, would Smokey have been able to enter and kill everyone?

        8. I just don’t think the temple people would have turned that quickly on the rest of the island folk. I think they just ran into the jungle and were spared FLocke’s wrath for now. I think somehow FLocke’s army is composed of people he was able to recruit over the years and just people we’ve never seen. Perhaps they are the whispering voices in the jungle?

        • Ok, didn’t think the first one posted so I rewrote it again, sorry for the double posting there.

        • Let me respond to these, dochielomn:

          4. I totally get your point, as that seems to make more sense. Still, there seemed to be something so intentional on Dogen’s part. It would seem Dogen was actually sending Sayid to his death (again), in which case I’m not sure why it would have mattered if he spoke to FLocke or not.

          5. I don’t think so. I think killing Dogen allowed Smokey to enter the temple. Why? I don’t know.

          8. You could be right on this. Still, if you just saw Smokey rip through the temple and lay waste to people that easily, you might also shit your pants and do your best to join up with him ASAP lest you face instant death.

      • I just read this over on The Onion’s review of “Sundown.” It would seem another “reviewer’s” take is in line with mine:

        “Towards the end, we hear a moving anecdote from Dogen about his baseball: about how it reminds him of his son, whom he nearly killed in a drunk driving accident. Jacob came to Dogen in the hospital and offered to heal his son, but only if Dogen would agree to come to The Island and never see his son again. So Dogen had a choice… which was really no choice.”

        Glad to see I’m not the only one who thinks Dogen’s son didn’t die.

  7. Dochielomn… I think that Dogen couldn’t kill Sayid because he, “might be one of them.” Same reason that Justin and Mac “couldn’t” kill Jin. Something about the unwritten rules.

    Also, in the LA X reality, do you fellas think Nadia was prisoner who was interrogated by Sayid? Is that another reason he couldn’t be with her? Because she was a constant reminder?

    • I don’t think Sayid tortured Nadia in the other timeline. Think they just knew each other before and that Sayid eventually pushed her towards his brother to get away from him (Sayid) and his current lifestyle. That’s my guess.

      • I’m not sure how significant that is, to be honest. I mean, I’m not sure the reason as to why she and Sayid aren’t together is nearly as significant as the fact that they’re NOT together.

  8. If you’re interested, here is a fantastic column by EW’s Doc Jensen on the Alice in Wonderland parallels:

  9. The whole, “don’t let him speak” thing was just Dogen wanting Sayid to take immediate, unprovoked action so FLocke would react by lashing out. It wasn’t that the word, “hello” made him impervious to knife wounds. Dogen pretty much puts that to rest when Sayid tells him, “this is the second time you’ve tried to have someone else kill me” and Dogen doesn’t deny it.

    Two bigger questions… if he knew that FLocke wouldn’t die, why the special dagger that he had buried in the flowerpot? Just for appearances? Also, Dogen says, “you say you still have some good in you. Prove it.” Was this supposed to show that Sayid hasn’t been converted, or was it to show that with his last vestiage of goodness, he passed Dogen’s final test, but ultimately succumbs to the infection.

    This stabbing scene also mirrors Ben stabbing Jacob. Both Sayid and Ben had the knives given to them, both stabbed their victims in the chest. However, the main differences are that MiB didn’t die and spoke with manipulative compassion, while Jacob died and spoke with maniuplative contempt. I just liked the symmetry of it. And again, it showed that Sayid and Ben are the same but opposite.

    I read somewhere, I think on an interview with the actor who played Dogen, and he said he’s been on the island about 15 years. Which would make his son 27, if that has any relevance.

    The whispers in the jungle, I just remembered, are almost surely just The Others. When Ben took Alex, he told Danielle that whenever she heard whispers, run the other way.

    Oh, and one other question I had. If Jacob can heal people, seemingly from near fatal injuries, can he also hurt people? Did he give Ben the growth on his spine? And why did he only heal Locke half way? And again, he did to Dogen what FLocke told Saywer… he came to him when he was vulnerable and gave him a choice that was really not a choice.

    Furthermore, can Smokey heal people too? He promises Nadia, and I like Brandon’s theory about the timelines, but what if he can ressurect people as well? Locke has survived more near death experiences than anyone else on the series. He was a “miracle” baby, he was pushed out of a window, he survived the hatch explosion, and being shot by Ben. Was it only Jacob keeping him alive? He had some connection to Smokey even as a little child, drawing pictures of him, no?

    • You make a great point about the special, hidden knife. Why, in fact, was it taken care of in such a manner and utilized to kill FLocke if Dogen knew it would be a fruitless effort?

      You might have glossed over it, but I essentially made that point about Sayid/Ben in my write-up:

      “FLocke greets Sayid, but before Sayid responds he removes the knife and plunges it into FLocke (much like Ben plunged the knife into Jacob).”

      You do make a great observation about the symmetry between Ben and Sayid. Well done.

      Speaking of symmetry, it really is interesting that this was a Sayid episode, as it throws a wrench in the whole mirroring of season 1 structure. Til this point, every season 6 episode was following season 1 in terms of the episode’s focal character. That being the case, “Sundown” should have been a Sun and Jin episode, as season 1, episode 6 was “House of the Rising Sun.” Clever move by the writers, then, to not only make this a Sayid episode, but to again include the word “sun” in the title, thus essentially promising us something that it wasn’t at all.

    • I think the special dagger was shown more for effect, like if Dogen was being attacked and captured, he had hidden this dagger in a spot where he could get to it without anyone suspecting anything. Or, it was to try to convince Sayid that it had magical powers since Dogen is mentioning that Sayid needs to use to it on someone who is already dead but in the form of another. Just a possibility. Another one though is that maybe this dagger had the ability to actually pierce the flesh of FLocke because we have seen earlier that a bullet just sort of bounced off of him. Not sure but I’m gonna guess we won’t be seeing that dagger anymore.

      As far as Jacob being able to hurt peoppe, one would think if he has the power to the heal then he would also have other powers as well to hurt but he chooses not to use them. My guess is also that Jacob didn’t give Ben his tumor and I would still aruge that Dogen had total free choice about his son. He just chose to save his son’s life or heal him. Dogen could have just accepted what he did and lived with it but obviously, he let human nature take over and wanted to heal his son since it wasn’t his son’s fault about driving drunk.

      Finally, I sort of took it that maybe Smokey doesn’t have total healing powers but he can revive people. My thinking here is how Miles tells Sayid that the temple people tried to save him but he died and was dead for 2 hours but something brought him back to life. I take that “something” as Smokey.

      • As of right now, the only thing I’m convinced of regarding the dagger is that a light bulb should have gone off in my head immediately. That is, it was foreshadowing. I had to have known Sayid would kill someone with it; however, I didn’t think that someone would be Lennon. And by the way, am I the only one who thought casting Sol Star was essentially useless? I mean, he’s a solid, recognizable actor. Why cast him in a role where he’s really got nothing to do and kill him six episodes in? Strange.

  10. This is unfortunate. According to this article in the Washington Post, the writers don’t think they’ll have the time to tie up all the loose ends. Really?! I find that, well, pretty fucking irritating:

    • Not surprising as there always seems too many small details/twists that they would need to tell us about. So, why Libby was shown in the mental ward is just going to be an unsolved mystery and open to debate. However, even if they weren’t going to tell us on the show, they could at least field some questions about stuff they didn’t answer. But I guess according to this article, they won’t be doing that.

      • Honestly, I find this somewhat unacceptable. Look, I’ve already come to realize I will never — NEVER — get my biggest question on LOST answered, which is, as you addressed, what in the fuck Libby was doing in the mental hospital. Fine. It’s a red herring. Let’s get past that.

        On the other hand, I think it’s a bullshit move to just say that “if the characters don’t care about certain answers, why should we [the writers and audience].” As a writer myself, I totally understand that you sometimes get to a point in your writing when the characters make their own choices, not the writer. It makes perfect sense to me. However, this statement by the writers of LOST essentially says that they’ve always had an ending in mind which they intend to get to. All that shit that happened between the first episode and then? Eh, it’s malleable. In other words, only some of it mattered. I call bullshit.

        Look, it’s never going to be enough to dismiss LOST in any matter, as I’m obviously insane for this show. It’s absolutely brilliant. I just don’t like the notion that at this state in the game they can ignore what they choose to ignore, for a lack of importance/relevance.

        • Is there anything preventing them from wrapping things up with a book or encyclopedia on all things LOST? If they’re adamant about not restarting the show with more episodes or a movie, then I imagine that would be the easiest way to tie up EVERYTHING.

          • It’s a nice idea, but I just don’t see it happening. I think the only post-LOST materials we’ll see will come from theorists like Doc Jensen and J. Wood.

        • Don’t give up hope about Libby! It’s been my biggest question too. The creators said that she would be seen this season in an interview before the season started.

          It’s pretty ridiculous though that they won’t make some sort of effort to resolve things. At least through interviews or something.

          • I love you, Manderson, but DO NOT POST SPOILER-RELATED SHIT ANYWHERE ON MY SITE!!! I had NO idea Libby was going to be back on this season. I do not want to know this sort of stuff.

            Now, then, be thankful I don’t banish you to Jacob’s cabin.

          • My bad! I was just trying to keep your hopes up as it has kept mine up. I didn’t really even think about it as a spoiler, even though it obviously is. I apologize! Feel free to delete it!

  11. Yeah, I agree with Seve. They’ll put out a book or some more “missing pieces” scenes or something that will be exclusive to a Lost DVD box set. It is, afterall, a business as well. It’ll be a last ditch attempt to grab some more cash before the next project they go on to.

    Also, I agree even with that, people who love Lost will never be satiated. However, it’s brilliance lies mainly in the fact that it allows it’s viewers to feel smart. If we percieve it to be brilliant, and we can figure out some of the plot twists… hey… we’re pretty darn smart too! So some aire of mystery/ambiguity will always remain.

  12. You know, not too many of you weighed in as to whether or not you liked the episode. Again, I liked it a lot more AFTER I wrote about it, but I still didn’t love it.

    And by the way, something else I’ve been thinking about: could it be that Kate is going to end up being the key to this “game”? I mean, despite what FLocke told Sawyer, I still think that was FLocke’s cave, whereas it was Sawyer’s lighthouse. Now, whose name was suspiciously missing from the cave? Kate’s, yet there it was on the spinny-mirror thingy. This suggests that FLocke doesn’t consider her a candidate, even though, according to Jacob’s wheel, she is one. FLocke is clearly suspicious of Kate based on the look he gives her at the end of “Sundown.” Again, though, because he doesn’t consider her a candidate, perhaps she is the key to destroying him.

    • Well, I already blogged a little bit about it on my own blog:

      I thought it served as a decent “continuation” episode, but “The Lighthouse” set the bar really, really high. Sayid episodes in general kind of stink – His life is always horrible and full of killing, and I think most of us are watching LOST for the drama, not for 24-style action scenes.

    • I didn’t really have an issue with the episode. I like Sayid as a character so seeing hsi sideways flash was fun and I’m interested in seeing what Jin’s connection to those guys was (originally I thought it was going to be Sayid’s brother that was trapped there, like if they kidnapped him from the hospital).

      My biggest question is what happened to Ben at the end of this episode. He wasn’t with the group that went through the secret door as it didn’t appear he made it back in time to be with them. Plus, I loved his reaction to seeing Sayid’s face when Sayid told him that he wasn’t leaving. Ben just had a great horrified look on his face like he knew Sayid was no longer Sayid.

      2 Q’s for you though Cousin Brandon, 1 being related to Lost and the other just really random. 1) Do you watch the previews for next week or do you consider that a spoiler? 2) Bakc before Dave deleted all of the posts from the message board, there was a thread about greatest fictional bands in movies and I wrote how N.W.H from Fear of a Black Hat should be considered and I think it might have been you that agreed with me (or at least acknowledged of seeing that movie) but I forget and for some reason this thought came back into my ehad so I figured I would ask.

  13. I just watched the final sequence again, and I want to reinforce a couple points:

    1. When Sayid returns to talk to Dogen, Dogen makes a point of saying, “You let him talk to you FIRST, didn’t you?” Sayid says, “I stabbed him, then I talked to him.” Look, I still say that it might have made a difference if Sayid stabbed FLocke before any words were exchanged.

    2. I still contend that Dogen’s son never died. He makes the point of saying that in the deal he made with Jacob, Jacob said he “could save my son’s life.” He doesn’t say Jacob “could bring my son back to life.” Also, I just realized, too, the other parallel with Dogen and Jack, in that not only do they both have sons in the sideways reality, but both are baseball fans and have sons who are baseball fans. Will they play on the same baseball team?

    3. At this point, as much as people dislike Kate, I contend that the most useless, uninteresting character (next to Lennon, who was just poorly utilized, and Ilana, who even though she has value, I just don’t like her) is Sun. Seriously, she went from being such a cool character in the flash-forward timeline in season 4 to being a fucking cardboard cutout. She’s like the helpless heroine who adds zero to the show at this point. Ugh. It’s grating.

  14. I agree, Sun is a bummer, but you’re a writer Brandon. You need to see change in a character. Her change was just poorly written/utliized. She probably still has a big role in the grander scheme of things, which is why she’s still alive. She does have Charlie’s DS ring, and she’s the only character with a daughter concieved on the island.

    I still don’t know if Sayid is a sleeper cell or not. What bugs me is that Jacob told Hurley it was too late to warn people at the temple. Really? You got Hurley and Jack out with plenty of time. He could have told Hurley then and there to leave a note with Miles or someone that someone really bad is coming…. Which leads me to believe things with Sayid aren’t what they appear to be. Jacob told Hurley to bring Sayid to the temple. He could’ve asked Hurley to kill him at any point too, or at least make sure he was in “the hole” (sounds pretty gay). But he didn’t. Is he just arming FLocke with soldiers? It would make no sense for him to be so foolish.
    And Dogen’s dead, but is anyone ever really dead in Lost? Sayid “died” the same way, he came back, right?

    Here’s another crazy theory. What if everyone DID die from the crash or bomb or whatever. But, when you die in one universe or reality, your consciousness automatically transfers to the new, or LA X reality? That’s kind of what happened to the dead in the Dark Tower series that Cuse and Lindoff love.

    • Oh, MM, I’m not saying she doesn’t have the potential to be a good character. What I’m saying is that the writers have reduced her to nothing more than an occassional foil. I mean, she had like one line in this last episode, and it was essentially, “You saw Jin?!” Wow. That’s pretty much all she’s been doing since the end of last season. Pretty lame.

      I think there’s a possibility we haven’t seen the end of Dogen (or Lennon, for that matter), seeing as how he was killed (and is still floating) in the spring.

      Possibly, but why, then, is Juliet dead in this reality whereas Jack, Sawyer, et al aren’t? I don’t know that your theory jives with that.

  15. I think the most interesting part of all of this is why did Jacob want Sayid to be taken to the temple in the first place? Was Jacob trying to resurrect himself in Sayid but failed? Or did he want something (most likely Smokey) to infect Sayid and basically have everything that has unfolded unfold. Did Jacob know that Sayid would get infected and ultimately bring the destruction of the temple and set all of this in motion? I think it would be fascinating if Jacob was playing both sides to ultimately get what he wanted.

    As for Sun, I agree with Cousin Brandon here. Sun right now is basically useless and pointless as she is only around to say “where’s Jin” or “I’m trying to find Jin”. The sideways version of her might be more interesting if she can indeed speak english (I think we’ll find that out if we get a Sun and Jin episode). And even when she finally reunites with Jin, then what?

    Also, I think Dogen is dead and his purpose on the show has been fulfilled. So I’m not expecting him to come back into the mix. And I know part of the fun is nitpicking details but i don’t think it matters if Dogen’s son was dead, near death, or just badly wounded and then Jacob healed him. But since we saw Jacob basically bring Locke back to the life after being pushed out of a window, I think Dogen’s son was like that.

    Finally, I still think that the point of Dogen saying “don’t let him speak a word” was just to get FLocke to kill Sayid since Sayid would have just blindly attacked FLocke. As Major Minority mentioned, when Sayid tells Dogen “this is the 2nd time you’ve tried to have someone kill me” Dogen doesn’t deny this nor does his expression change to “what are you talking about”. So I think Dogen just wanted FLocke to kill Sayid and the best way was to have Sayid attack him right away rather than listen to what FLocke has to say and then give FLocke a chance to recruit Sayid.

  16. […] 1. That is, Ben didn’t have an episode based on him in season 1, so like last week’s episode, “Sundown,” “Dr. Linus” was a wrench in the work, so to speak. On the other hand, the seventh episode of […]

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