Posted by: cousinbrandon | May 19, 2010

LOST – Season 6, Episode 16: “What They Died For”

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Today’s recap has a chop-shop feel to it, in that I didn’t take any notes last night. I started to, actually, but 10 minutes in I said the hell with it and opted instead just to watch things unfold. I’m really glad I did, truth be told. But because I’m an obsessive nerd, I re-watched “What They Died For” this morning on my computer. That is, I played it on one screen while typing furiously on another. What follows, then, is note-taking synced up with audio only. Sure, I was able to fill in bits and pieces from what I remembered watching, so there’s that. Still, this might not function like one of my typical recaps. With only the finale remaining, who cares? I mean, you guys did an amazing job last week of providing feedback and asking questions that I’m sure this will suffice, and I’m sure even more questions will be raised this week. With that, let’s get into the penultimate episode, beginning with…

1. Nick of Time.

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Opens with Jack waking in apartment and a close-up of his eye (a la the debut episode of LOST). Has mirror moment similar to the season premiere on airplane, and again his neck is bleeding. David is there to say he made breakfast. His concert is tonight. His mother is coming. Claire is staying there, too. Jack gets call from Oceanic that they found Christian’s coffin, though it’s actually Desmond on the other end of the phone. Sideways to…

2. Count to Five. Jack treating Kate’s bullet wound. Sewing her up the way she sewed him up in pilot, where he told her to count to five (as in his exchange with his father) and sew him up. Kate says they have to kill FLocke; Jack says, “I know.” Sawyer, Kate, Hurley and Jack looking at wreckage from sub washing up on shore. Jack’s plan is to go after Desmond, since he’s obviously important to FLocke. (Weird that Kate had her head on Sawyer’s shoulder? Slut.) Sideways to…

3. The Whooping Redux. Locke has returned to school. Desmond watches Locke from his car. Ben recognizes Des as the assailant and Desmond beats the hell out of him. He tells Dr. Linus he’s there to help Locke “let go.” Jogs Ben’s memory of Desmond beating Ben on the dock, which I believe took place in season 4 (but I’m blanking). Ben is now enlightened (remembers). Sideways to…

4. Searching for Bobby Fisher.

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Sorry, I just wanted a chess reference. Ben, Richard and Miles heading to New Otherton. Tells them he hid the C4 in the secret room behind the bookcase. Approaching the house, Miles feels the energy of Alex, and Richard tells Ben he buried her. Ben barely flinches and thanks Richard for doing so. Inside Ben reveals his secret room. Tells them the spot with the glyphs is where he was told he could summon the monster, before he realized “it was the one summoning me.” In other words, Ben has a moment of realization that all this time, when he thought he was in control, he was actually just a pawn. Ben grabs all the C4 from the safe to blow up the plane. They hear noise in the kitchen and find Zoe, when Widmore enters, as well. Widmore sends Zoe to collect their things and sink their outrigger. Tells them he’s the one who rigged the plane with explosives initially. Says Jacob invited him back, that Jacob convinced him to return after sinking the freighter. (Honestly, I would have liked to have seen this exchange, or at least a scene in which Jacob appeared to Widmore. That he just appeared to Widmore and told him all of this is a bit too convenient for my taste.) FLocke is approaching per Zoe’s call from the dock. Sideways to…

5. Clue.

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Ben is being treated by the school nurse (Is that Ms. Klugh from season 2, the one who was holding Walt captive? And, yeah, another bad pun for this section.) [UPDATE: I forgot to mention that Ben has a mirror moment here.] Locke enters infirmary. Ben says he saw the man who ran him down. He says he thinks he “saw” something while being beaten. Said the man (Des) was there to help Locke “let go, and for some reason I believed him.” Asks if it means anything to John, which it clearly does. Meanwhile, Des enters the police station and turns himself in to Sawyer and Miles, the latter of whom is dressing for benefit concert at the museum. Says Charlotte will be there so Sawyer passes on it. Des cops to hit-and-run and beating of Ben, and is taken to a holding cell where Sayid and Kate are both being held. Sideways to…

6. Kiss My Ash! Jack reassures Sawyer, who is guilt-ridden over the deaths of Sun, Jin and Sayid, that it wasn’t his fault. Hurley spots the ghost boy (who we now know is Jacob from “Across the Sea”) and produces the pouch of Jacob’s ashes. Jacob snatches them and runs off. Hurley follows him to find Jacob the adult, who is perched around a fire. Says his ashes are in the fire, and when it burns out Hurley will never see him again. Tells him “We’re very close to the end, Hugo.” Jump to New Otherton…

7. Smoke(y) ‘Em If You Got ‘Em. Zoe and Widmore enter secret room to hide. “Give me your walkie talkies,” says Ben. “Why?” Widmore responds. “Because I asked.” Was that some sort of Jedi mind-shit or was that part of the rules? Seemed awfully explicit. Miles takes off running into the jungle to evade Smokey. Richard and Ben go outside. Richard thinks he can reason with FLocke, who swoops in as Smokey and launches Richard into the air. (I would think he was dead, but you know what they say on LOST: if you didn’t see him die, don’t ever assume he’s dead.) Ben takes a seat on the porch and FLocke approaches. “I need you to kill some people for me, Ben.” Tells him once he leaves the island Ben can have it all to himself, and Ben agrees to it. Ben gives up the whereabouts of Zoe and Widmore. Sideways to…

8. Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner.

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Dr. Linus is approached by Alex, who sees he’s injured and offers him a ride home with her mom, Danielle Rousseau. (Even dressed and manicured, I still think she’s weird looking.) They invite him over for dinner, where it’s Coq au Vin night. (Seriously, who has Coq au Vin night? Leave it to the French.) She insists he join them “even if we have to kidnap you.” Nice. Tells Ben Alex’s father died when she was 2. Says she’s so attached to Ben because of the interest he’s taken in her, like a father figure. Ben looks at Alex and starts to cry, clearly conscious of what has happened to her and who both he and Alex really are. I was trying to do some kind of math as to where that would have put Ben at the time Alex was 2. Anyone? Sideways to…

9. The Assassination of Charles Widmore by the Coward Ben Linus.

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Ben takes FLocke inside to his chamber. FLocke says Ben can wait outside, but Ben says, “I want to see this.” “How nice to be able to talk without those fences between us,” FLocke says to Widmore. FLocke asks who Zoe is. When she responds, FLocke slits her throat. “You told her not to talk to me and that made her pointless,” FLocke says. Tells Widmore the first thing he’s going to do is kill his daughter, Penny. Wants to know why Widmore came back. Says he brought Desmond back because of his resistance to electromagnetism. Des was last resort. FLocke wants a fuller explanation and says he won’t kill Penny if Widmore complies. Widmore doesn’t want Ben to hear so he whispers it to FLocke, and Ben shoots Widmore dead during the exchange. “He doesn’t get to save his daughter.” Pretty damn awesome, really, but I was under the impression Ben couldn’t kill Widmore because of the rules? Anyone? Other side of the island…

10. Camp Jacob. Jack and crew approach the fire. They can all see Jacob, not just Hurley. Jacob admits he wrote their names on the wall. (So I guess that means the cave really did belong to Jacob?) Jacob tells them to sit down so he can explain why he chose them. By the time fire burns out, one of them will have to start protecting the island. Sideways to…

11. The Fixer.

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Locke enters Jack’s office. Looks at picture of Jack, David and Christian and we see an awfully bad Photoshop job. (Seriously, it’s hard to believe that’s the best they can do on a show like this!) Locke begins pointing out all of the coincidences. On the same plane, hit by a car a few days later and brought to Jack, of all the doctors in LA. After saving his life, didn’t want to be fixed. Then the man who ran him down beat up a teacher in parking lot and was there to help Locke “let go,” which is exactly what Jack said to John in the hospital. “What if all of this happening for a reason? Maybe you’re supposed to fix me?” Jack responds, “I think you’re confusing coincidence for faith.” Either way, “I think I’m ready to get out of this chair.” Sideways to…

12. The Replacements.

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Jacob says he brought them there because he made a mistake. “Every single one of you and everyone you cared about is going to die,” Jacob explains if someone fails to take on this job. “You call him the monster,” he says, in reference to Smokey. “I’m responsible for what happened to him. I made him that way. He’s been trying to kill me.” Jacob admits he brought Jack and company there to replace him. Sawyer chimes in that he was happy in his old life, but Jacob points out that all of them were flawed in their other lives. They were chosen because they were like him – “alone, looking for something they couldn’t find.” They were chosen because they needed the island as much as the island needed them. Jacob says Kate’s name was crossed off because she became a mother, but the job is hers if she wants it. (Doesn’t this confirm, then, that “Kwon” was Jin, seeing as how it wasn’t crossed off and Sun was obviously a mother?) Jacob says there’s a light at center of island must never go out; that’s how you protect the island from Smokey. He wants them to kill Smokey. Jacob’s not going to pick his own replacement; he wants them to have a choice, to pick amongst themselves. (Again, it’s free will, but is it? I mean, they were still brought there after all and are now being forced into a decision even though it’s under the guise of free will.) Jack volunteers for the job. “This is why I’m here. This is what I’m supposed to do.” Perhaps a bit anticlimactic that it’s Jack, but then that’s really what everything’s been leading to all along, so I actually dug that. Jacob takes Jack to the stream. “I thought that guy had a God complex before,” quips Sawyer. Jacob asks if Jack remembers the bamboo field he woke up in when he first got to the island. Says across that field is the heart of the island, where Smokey is trying to get. That’s what he has to protect and now he can get there. Jack hands him a cup from his pack and Jacob begins “chanting.” Fills the cup with water from the stream and asks Jack to drink from it. Jack asks how long he’ll have the job, and Jacob responds, “As long as you can.” Jack drinks. “Now you’re like me,” says Jacob. Sideways to…

13. The Paddywagon. Sawyer rounds up Des, Sayid and Kate to send them to the county jail. Kate asks Sawyer to free her, as she’s innocent and he knows it. He can’t; he’s a cop. “You don’t seem like a cop to me.” In the back of the wagon, Des asks Kate and Sayid if they want to leave, but they have to trust him and do something for him. They think he’s nuts, but agree nonetheless. The moment they give Des his trust, the wagon stops. The back door is opened by Ana Lucia. (I still hate her. And by the way, nice to see that she’s a crooked cop. What an asshole.) Hurley pulls up in his Hummer and hands her a bag of money. “Oh, hey, you didn’t tell me Ana Lucia was going to be here,” he says, which I thought was pretty funny. Des says she’s not ready to be enlightened yet. Why not? Also, why $135,000? Seems pretty arbitrary. Sayid goes with Hurley; Kate with Des. Says they’re going to a concert and hands her a cocktail dress. And I’m pretty certain it will be the same concert where David is performing, where Miles and Charlotte will be, where Faraday and Eloise will be, and so forth. Sideways to…

14. All’s Well(s) That Ends Well(s).

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Ben and FLocke trekking through jungle. Ben asks why he bothers walking, and FLocke says he likes to be reminded he was human. They reach the well but FLocke realizes Des is gone (freed with a rope). FLocke is pleased as this is a help to him. Widmore told FLocke Des was a failsafe, one final way to make sure he never got off the island. FLocke says, “I’m gonna’ find Des and he’s going to help me do the one thing I could never do myself: I’m gonna’ destroy the island.” (But didn’t FLocke promise Ben he could have the island to himself? I guess you don’t have to keep your promises when you’re a smoke monster.)

Yeah, I know that was haphazard and choppy, and I know I didn’t do a lot of critical thinking. I will say this: despite being a transitional episode, I loved it. It was really one of the better “moving everyone into place” episodes before the season finale. Sometimes they’re clumsy, but this one felt pretty solid and well handled. Sure, parts of it were abrupt, including the rash death of Richard which really seemed unfair considering how important his character has been. With that, unload all of your thoughts/comments below.

With that, I bid you farewell. And for God’s sake, don’t you dare miss the two-and-a-half-hour series finale on Sunday. Not Tuesday, Sunday! So, until next time, have at it, you vultures!

BD

[By the way, I just realized that this was my 200th — 200th! — post on my blog. Thanks for reading, folks.]

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Responses

  1. Ok, as usual, here’s my 2 cents:

    1. I don’t think Richard is dead. Just seemed like a waste to kill him like that. I think he might be hanging upside down in a tree like after the first time that FLocke abducted him.

    2. FLocke is keeping his word to Ben about how Ben can have what’s left. There just won’t be anything left after Smokey is done. Or that’s his plan at least.

    3. Any ideas on how FLocke is going to destroy the island? Maybe, toss Desmond down the cave of light and maybe his electromagnetism thing would cuase some massive reaction to destroy the island?

    4. I loved Ben’s line “he doesn’t get to save his daughter”. Not sure about the rules with them killing each other but I suppose rules were meant to be broken? Also, when Ben first saw Widmore and Widmore told Zoe to go do something and how Ben wouldn’t shoot him, I really wanted Ben to shoot Zoe and say “you’re right, I won’t shoot you”.

    Although, it does seem creepy that Ben is forgetting his epiphany mainly because he seemed a little too enthusiastic about who else do I get to kill. If there is a replacement for Smokey, I say Ben has taken the lead there.

    5. The concert has to be where all of the Losties are going to gather. Not sure how Sun and Jin are going to get there though. Same with Locke.

    6. Desmond thinking about running over Locke again was hysterical. Ben was good there but I find it hard to believe that no one would have come running up to help Ben especially when Desmond first started to beat him up.

    7. The Jacob revelation was interesting but I wanted more. Not sure what, but something.

    Think that’s it for now.

    • Let’s do this, sir:

      1. Agreed on Richard. I just don’t buy it. No way you kill him off like that. Lapidus? Sure. Richard? No way.

      2. I suppose that’s so, but more and more I’m starting to believe that FLocke will be killed and Ben will take his place. In other words, Ben Linus = The New Smokey, as he will somehow take a trip down into the cave.

      3. I think he DOESN’T destroy the island. Sure, in the other timeline that appears to be the case, but I just don’t know. I really think Jack and Ben end up as the new “players.”

      4. Fuck Zoe. Glad she’s dead. And, yeah, Ben’s line was fantastic. I still say it’s amazing how much you empathize for a guy like Ben Linus when he’s done so much despicable shit. Kudos to Michael Emerson.

      5. Not sure about the Kwons.

      6. I suppose the thought process was that he failed to “wake him” the last time, but, yeah, to even consider running him down again was outright preposterous in terms of the writing.

      7. Not sure what, specifically, you’re referring to.

      Thanks for your thoughts.

      • The Jacob revelation I was referring to was basically Jacob explaining to the Losties about why he brought them there and such and what their job is. Basically, his whole speech to them. I wanted more from that.

        • Well, in a way less was more there, if only in explaining why they were chosen. Imagine you’re Sawyer or Kate in that moment, and Jacob is telling you that you were chosen because your real life was “flawed,” ie fucked up and not really worth living. You’d almost want to say absolutely nothing and just accept it, right?

  2. As always, your synopsis and ongoing devotion to the show are fantastic, Brandon. Well done. Your Lost blog will be sorely missed.

    Rousseau mentioning to Ben that Alex’s father died when she was two years old: Would that be around the same time the Others gassed the DHARMA inhabitants?

    Ben killing Widmore (and its relation to the rules): Arguably, the “rules” went out the window when Widmore became unwittingly (possibly unintentionally?) associated with Keamy’s murder of Alex. Also, are there really any rules left if there’s no one to follow them – similar to the tree falling in the woods and making/not making a sound theory? Consider, the once-thriving clan of Others is now dead. Thus, no rules if there’s no one to follow them. Besides, the rules applied to the Others when the Others had no real idea as to what the hell the island, Jacob, or Smokey were all about. Essentially, the rules changed when their whole world changed.

    Random thoughts…

    Widmore is a liar. Unless my short-term memory is shot, Jacob didn’t appear to him. The DHARMA initiative found the island all those years ago, and Eloise Hawking is the current caretaker of the Lamp Post. Simply, Widmore found the way back.

    Ben is a little bitch. What a rat. I’m glad Desmond beat his ass in the sideways storyline. Any episode including Ben getting a beatdown is a good episode. But I can’t fault him – It was either going to be Smokey killing him if he didn’t give him an answer he liked, or Widmore killing (or exiling) him later. He bought himself time to figure out what to do next. Smokey promises Ben the island then tells him he wants to blow it up – Bummer, man. Reminds me of Back to the Future II where Biff Tannen swipes a ball from a group of kids playing with it… asks if they’d like it back… then throws it onto a neighboring house’s roof and tells them to go get it.

    Jacob became visible to everyone? That’s one hell of a ghost if you asked me. Obviously it had something to do with the ashes; but still, interesting nonetheless.

    Random question – How did the Others (Widmore and Ben, specifically) know the location of the donkeywheel exit portal? And how did they return to the island after previous turns of said donkeywheel?

    And finally, since I didn’t post it to last week’s synopsis, it’s clear that my theory of the island’s and Jacob’s & Smokey’s origins was WAY off. So much for it (and them) originating from the Tunisian desserts and being placed in the middle of the ocean by some mysterious and powerful god-like figure, whose mystery is only exceed by their power.

    So… who’s up for a Lost finale party at the Brickhaus?!?!

    • Thanks for the kind words, JMZ. Again, for those of you who missed it, I’m intending to go back and blog the first season of LOST, so all is not, well, lost.

      1. I don’t think so. If we assume that they’re in 2007 in the other timeline and that Alex is, at the oldest, 18 years old, I still don’t think the times would match up properly.

      2. I suppose that’s a good point. After all, Widmore shouldn’t have been able to return to the island and did so nonetheless, so I guess all bets are off.

      3. But why lie to Ben at that point? The fact is, he’s there, and Ben will never trust/believe Widmore regardless.

      4. Ben Linus remains my favorite character on LOST. His saving his own skin is exactly what he should have done. He’s not a candidate. He owes nothing to anyone at this point. His daughter, Alex, is dead, and the only other thing he cares about is the island. Made perfect sense to me.

      5. I’m not sure how I felt about him being visible to everyone, as I don’t really see how it was possible.

      6. Well, we saw how Ben returned to the island after moving the donkey wheel. What’s more, Locke never returned to the island (not a living Locke, anyway). As far as the exit point, I would assume someone turned the wheel at one point and communicated the exit point to someone else, as Widmore obviously knew where the exit point was. (Remember, he had a camera on the location in the desert when John arrived.)

      • Let me also add in that I thought Widmore was flat out lying about how he came back and why. He was always obsessed with finding the island again so I think that’s what drove him to come back. Although, on the other hand, he did bring back Desmond saying that the island wasn’t done with him yet. So what did Widmore have in mind for Desmond?

  3. I thought this week’s episode was really good. It felt a little rushed at times, but I thought they did a much better job this week than the prior weeks that felt rushed. As for questions…

    Couldn’t Kwon still be both? Maybe Jin was crossed off because he has a daughter to raise?

    And what was the deal with Miles freaking out about Alex’s grave? It seemed pointless to me and was the scene that bugged me the most.

    I loved when Ben killed Widmore, finally it seemed he was doing something without the guidance of someone else, although he’s not back to being a pawn of Locke it seems. I kept thinking the same thing you said earlier, Ben will become the smoke monster.

    Lastly, what is Locke’s plan with Desmond? Is he going to throw him into the light because we think he can survive it? I’m convinced that SOMEONE will end up down there.

    With that said, my Tuesdays will now be sad and empty.

    Thanks again CB! I’m looking forward to the idea of a season one blog!

    • I think the scene with Miles mentioning Alex was just a reminder that Alex died at this exact spot and that it tugged at Ben’s emotions and hence when he sees Widmore, he’s even more enraged on the inside because he was just reminded about her death. Something along those lines is what I can come up with.

      • Exactly what I was thinking – it was just a way to guide the audience and remind them about Alex, since a) we were about to get a Widmore/Ben confrontation and b) it set up the scene with Alex/Ben/Danielle

        • And by the way, even though there were aspects of the scene between Ben and Danielle that were, well, hokey, it was a pretty fantastic parallel/suggestion in that the two of them might actually “fall in love” in the sideways reality. The question is whether or not the seemingly now lucid Ben will realize what a monster he is.

    • Couldn’t agree more, Manderson. So, let’s get to it:

      1. No. I mean, Jacob’s line to Kate wasn’t, “You had a child to raise”; it was “You’re a mother.” I see that as being two completely different things to someone with the mommy issues Jacob has.

      2. It didn’t bother me one bit. Again, his “Spidey Sense” was triggered and he reacted. I think it got weird once he realized whose ghost it was, as he obviously wanted to spare Ben. But, of course, Richard went ahead and told him anyway.

      3. Seeing him kill Widmore was great for a couple reasons: A) I really don’t like how they handled Widmore’s character. He went from being mysterious and all-powerful to just being this old guy on the island; B) That fucker had it coming for arranging Alex’s murder and stealing Des away from Penny. On the other hand, didn’t you think their final show-down would have been more “telegraphed” in some way? That is, larger?

      4. I still think it’s Ben who ends up going down into the cave/light, but I could be wrong. But, yes, I think it might be FLocke’s plan to toss Desmond down there.

  4. Hey Brandon.
    Well, I missed a week but caught up and watched the new one last night. I actually wasn’t so down on the Across the Sea one. Wasn’t the best, and I totally agree that it would have been a really great statement to have kicked the season off with it (though I wonder how it would have tested with audiences), but all in all I enjoyed it. I kind of agree about introducing a recognizable actress, but I’ve always liked CJ Craig. I have to admit that I liked the “Adam and Eve” thing. I thought it was a nice way to create a circle. I can see a train of thought where it is seen as forced and maybe a little cheesey, but it played well with me.

    With this one. I really liked it. I loved Ben killing Widmore. I actually didn’t see his inability to kill Widmore as being like Jacob and MiB, but as a sort of treaty that I don’t entirely understand. Maybe it was like Michael not being able to die until the island was ready for him to die. Maybe they just couldn’t kill each other and knew it. I don’t know. Just a thought.
    I also am convinced that Richard could not be dead just like that.
    All in all, I don’t have a ton of thoughts. I’m ridiculously excited about the finale though. I can’t remember the last time I was this excited about something coming up on television. I’m practically salivating. It’s just awesome.

    Also, I think Dochielomn’s idea about tossing Desmond into the light cave as a means of destroying the island as incredibly intriguing. Great theory.

    Thanks Brandon.

    • I still don’t know how I feel about Ben outright killing Widmore. Yes, perhaps Widmore broke the rules by killing Alex, but if you go back to Ben entering Widmore’s apartment, Widmore told Ben, “You can’t kill me, Boy.” Why? Because of the rules. Well, I THINK WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THESE FUCKING RULES ARE!!! Look, I understand that LOST has a lot to get to, and I understand that not everything will be addressed, but I’m sorry. There are too many things they dedicated way too much time to not to provide some closure on, such as:

      1. The Rules;
      2. Walt and his powers;
      3. The Dharma Initiative;

      I’m sure there are plenty of other “mysteries” that need to be addressed, but those three need some work.

      And by the way, just a general thought but where in the hell was Claire this episode? What, FLocke just left her on the other island?

      • That’s true, about the rules. It’s kind of weak, but man that was cool and he played it perfectly. “He doesn’t get to save his daughter.” It was all just pretty bad ass, and fuck Widmore. I get where you’re coming from though with that being such a big detail to just sort of drop. I think it hits less with me because I got caught up very rapidly with the DVDs and didn’t have to do all of the waiting between episodes. I’m really looking forward to starting over and working my way through again.

        Great point about Claire. I actually kind of took it for granted watching the episode. Where was Claire? I wonder what’s going to go down with her in the finale.

  5. Just another random thought: we have to believe in fate at this point, and for a very obvious reason: Jack is alive. Let me explain.

    We know that Jacob brought all of these people to the island — these candidates — as his potential replacement. How did he get them there? He essentially organized it so they’d all be on the same plane. Okay, fine, whatever. Now, it would have been one thing if the plane landed on the island, only it didn’t. The plane EXPLODED mid-air! It ripped in half! And who survived? None other than Jack, Sawyer, Kate, et al. In other words, that’s a HUGE risk to take to find your potential replacement, but one you can take if you know they won’t die. With that, don’t we HAVE to believe in fate?

  6. I liked this episode.

    • Short and sweet, Richie, but right on.

      • It’s probably poor form, but I just wanted to mark my place in the comments for when I entered so the e-mail notifications would help me out. (Probably poor form on my part.)

        Now I’ve read everything and caught up.

        I assume Richard is still alive. I thought that he can’t die.

        If these were the candidates to replace Jacob, why didn’t Jacob ever contact these people in the first 3 years they were on the island? Did he need to see if they were “good” enough first?

        I don’t think Ben will be Smokey. I think either Smokey will stay as Smokey or there will be no new Smokey. There was no Smokey prior to Jacob sending his brother in the cave, so apparently there is no need for Smokey to exist.

        • You know, I would have agreed about there not needing to be a Smokey with reservations because of how much the show deals in balances and contrasts, but someone in these comments brought up the concept of CJ Craig almost being both Jacob and MiB in one being before. I think there is something to that and it jives with her character (at least what little we saw) and certainly the idea of the show.
          I think that in order for it to complete both halves need to be represented. There can’t be a utopia. Just my take.

          Also, no bad form at all in my opinion.

          • Who is CJ Craig?

          • Sorry, that was Allison Janey’s character on the West Wing. Jacob and MiB’s mother.

        • I still say the thing with Richard is not that he can’t die, but that he can’t take his own life. Who, after all, is Jacob to give anyone eternal life, especially when we’ve seen that Jacob himself can be killed?

          That question has been raised by others. And while I really think it’s because the writers weren’t sure what to do with Jacob at that point, I think you can explain it in a “I need to first observe them” way.

          Ummm, I highly disagree with that last point, as I’m pretty damn positive that Jacob and MiB’s mom was Smokey before MiB became Smokey. Check out the comments section from last week.

          • I agree with that. I didn’t have a chance to get into last week’s comments, but someone (it may have been you) above said that she spoke about not going into the cave with the certainty of someone who knew exactly what was going to happen. I say that she was both in one because she also had Jacob’s understanding of the island’s need to be defended. The importance of the source not being tampered with. To be really cheesey about it she “loved them both differently” and understood them both completely. When I have my lunch I’ll get into the other comments. I’m sure this was all discussed and I know I’ve missed a lot.

          • Is it inherently the “job” of the Smoke Monster to destroy the island? Or is it just that Jacob’s brother wants to leave the island, and happens to be the smoke monster?

            If Jacob’s mom was both the protector and smoke monster, how did she protect the island from herself? Or – is being both in one the best way to protect the island? Maybe Jack is going to enter the cave so that he can be the protector and the smoke monster at the same time.

            BTW – how is it that Jacob looks Swedish yet his real mother looks Hispanic? I don’t think that’s genetically possible is it?

          • I had forgotten the part where it seems that Alison Janney was the smoke monster (although it wasn’t confirmed, was it?)

            I’m trying to remember the timeline from last week. MiB killed his mom and then Jacob got mad about that and sent him in the cave, right? So there was a period of time that nobody was the smoke monster.

  7. Let us consider – Can Jacob REALLY take credit for bringing flight 815 to the island? Last time I checked, Desmond’s willingness to forego the number sequence is what brought them. Or are we to be of the belief that Jacob somehow influenced Desmond’s decision to forego the number sequence?

    Also – What’s the bet on Juliet being the mother of Jack’s son? I’ll lay 2-to-1 on it. We’ll find out at the concert.

    • Whether or not Jacob “brought” them is irrelevant. The point is that they were already being “watched” and considered for candidacy by Jacob. They HAD to survive the crash, and if that ain’t fate I don’t know what is.

      I think the odds are even better than that. I’ve been saying Juliet all along.

  8. Flight – I see where you’re coming from. And it totally makes sense. Still, while it was Jacob who corralled everyone onto the flight, Desmond is the one who ultimately landed them. With that, don’t you find it ironic that it is Desmond who corrals them all in the sideways universe? Interesting, in deed.

    Juliet (and your same claim as mine) – Oh! Well, that’s what I get for missing the last blogs for the last few episodes. Shame on me.

  9. With regards to where is Claire question, I could have cared less. I don’t think it really mattered for this episode. I thought about that and just assumed that FLocke told her to a) go somewhere and wait or b) gave her some other mission to do and that’s what she is doing.

    • I hadn’t thought about Claire until it was mentioned above. But there have been other times where I get frustrated wondering where somebody is. Usually it is a group of people, so this is even worse that it’s just one person that they abandoned. It wouldn’t kill them to make a quick explanation. “Claire, wait here while I go to New Otherton” or “FLocke, I have to take a crap, so I’ll catch up with you later”.

      I wonder if the writers had a big magnet board with all the character names on it, and then they move the characters into position to match the script to see if everybody is accounted for.

      • Well, I mean, no one seem to care that when Widmore’s people were bombing FLocke’s people (on the beach right after Sawyer stole the boat and Jack jumped off and went back to shore) that Sayid was nowhere to be seen on the beach. So where was he during all of that? Just one of those things that happens with some characters that’s really insignificant/irrelevant.

  10. A couple things from my man Doc Jensen:

    1. He describes the plane crash not as fate or free will, but as Jacob exerting his power to correct the wrong he made (in creating Smokey). Still not sure I really buy that, though, as I don’t know how he could have ensured protecting them.

    2. DJ also seems to think that Des will go downstream into the cave of light, only he will absorb its energy and redistribute it to us all, sort of like suggesting that we all of us are its guardians. In other words, “Good” exists but we lost it, and now it’s up to us to rediscover (and protect) what was always there. A bit corny, but possible, I suppose.

    3. DJ also suggests something that I’ve been wondering about, as well: are we sure that Jack will, in fact, replace Jacob? I mean, doesn’t it seem that the only reason to have Jack would be to have a Smokey, too. In other words, you can’t have good without evil, and you don’t need a protector if there’s nothing to protect against. Assuming we need Jack is assuming there will be a smoke monster. I’m just not so sure, still. Also, did anyone else find Hurley’s comment odd, about it being glad it “wasn’t him”? I mean, early this season I kept saying it was Hurley who would replace Jacob, but then last night they made us believe it was Jack. Now, I’m back wondering about Hurley again.

  11. I’m seeing questions raised as to who lowered the rope to Desmond in the well. Now, I just assumed it was Sayid. I mean, that would be the obvious choice, right? Is there someone I’m missing?

    • That was my assumption. But if Sayid left the rope, why would he tell Jack that Desmond was in the well? He would know that Desmond is probably out of the well.

      Did Claire follow Sayid when he went back to the well? Maybe she left the rope.

      • Now THAT’S an interesting thought. It might explain just where in the hell Claire was during this episode, but no, I don’t think she followed Sayid to the well.

  12. Since he seems to be satisfied that Desmond has escaped, maybe FLocke instructed Claire to get him out.

  13. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. In some cases, yes, Jacob might be right in saying they needed the island as much as the island needed them. However, I can’t get past the fact that Sawyer seems to be doing okay as a cop because Jacob NEVER GAVE HIM THE DAMN PEN! Jack also had issues, but worked them out. Jacob’s claim that they needed the island to work through their problems is a little presumptious, no? And I agree CB, a choice isn’t a choice if you have morals. Gee, everyone I care about is gonna die if I don’t do this. What kind of choice is that? Free will Vs. Destiny won’t ever be worked out, because, maybe they’re too ambiguous.

    Ben seems to be murderous and crazy, right? I say wrong. I think Ben killed Widmore despite the rules because Widmore broke the rules first. And I don’t think these rules were governed by anyone except for them.
    If all Ben wants is the island, well, MiB is pretty silly in saying he’s going to destroy it in front of Ben. I think Ben is being a Trojan Horse, of sorts. As a matter of fact, how do you think Desmond got out of the well? Jack and his gang didn’t find them. Widmore didn’t either. My guess…. Ben has the walkie talkie on the whole time he’s talking to MiB and Miles found Desmond. We saw in Ben’s episode that he doesn’t care about the island or power anymore, even though he thought he did. He only cared about Alex (thus, busting a cap in Widmore’s ass.) This point was driven home even more by the line where he says the monster was summoning him. He doesn’t want the power, and he never even had it. He knows. Give Ben a chance….

    In the sideways flashes, time is meaningless! Locke gets fired, rehired, hit by a car, gets highly risky/invasive/complicated surgery, recovers, and goes back to work within a week. Wow. This leads me to believe that the sideways time is fake, or contrived. Even the bad photoshop, as you mentioned, would point to this. (Think of what Hurley’s fake friend told him. “Photoshop, kinkos, etc.”) But here’s the thing; Hurley seems to be totally enlightened, with his recognition of Anna Lucia. So what is their goal? And how much do they really know? I don’t think Hurley would choose to go back to being an unlucky, Libbyless, loser with a bunch of dead friends. So is their goal to make it so that their conciousness stays in this reality?

    As far as Hurley saying he was glad it wasn’t him… I agree. I think he’s the one the MiB worries about the most. I think back to Lapidus saying his alarm clock didn’t go off, so he missed the plane. Same thing happened to Hurley. As well as about hlaf a dozen other things to prevent him from making flight 815. Almost as if something was preventing him from boarding.

    • Obviously, MM, I agree with a lot of your points, but I don’t think you can make the assumption that the alternate timeline is the “What If…” timeline. I don’t think it has anything to do with whether or not Jacob intervened, frankly. If it did, they wouldn’t be having flashes back to the island. In other words, Jacob DID intervene, so it’s moot.

      I totally think you’re right on Ben playing possum. The more I thought about the episode, the more it made sense. This is Ben Linus, after all. He’s the mastermind who’s survived and led and schemed all these years DESPITE not being the real leader, even though he thought it was so. He’s watched his child murdered and felt deceived by Jacob, the man to whom he gave his undying trust. And now the island will be destroyed? Yeah, Ben is plotting for sure.

      The other point of your “time” thing is this: ummm, wasn’t Desmond with Faraday at the concert weeks ago? That is, shouldn’t this concert have taken place already? The sideways timeline seems to be happening within a matter of so brief a time it’s preposterous, as you pretty much pointed out.

      Hurley is the one person who not only sees dead people but communicates with them. He is definitely “special” in a way that goes beyond the other candidates. That’s a great observation about nearly missing the plane, incidentally. I’m trying to think back to Locke’s “vision” way back when, when we saw the whole airport thing. I’m pretty sure Hurley was the one behind the ticket counter, ie the one offering passage onto the airplane. Hmmm.

  14. Good lord, catching up to the discussion is work.

    Love the last parts about Hurley playing a bigger role than they’re letting on. And totally agree that Ben is plotting.

    Jay, in case you’re reading this – THIS was the episode where I had that feeling you talked about last week. That this was the end. When that first scene opened on Jack’s eye, I actually got chills. It was such an obvious nod to “here we go, folks”.

    Brandon, I feel like your wrote this line a little to quickly: “And I’m pretty certain it will be the same concert where David is performing, where Miles and Charlotte will be, where Faraday and Eloise will be, and so forth.”? Really? I mean, this is OBVIOUSLY what Desmond has been setting up. So he can get everyone together and show Eloise (who also seems enlightened) what he knows.

    Random question: is it possible that Ben was always unwittingly working for the smoke monster? By that I mean, he was told he had to kill Locke. If Locke was always going to be the new vessel for the smoke monster, maybe it was the smoke monster who told him to do it. Not sure why I thought about that…maybe it’s because Flocke seems so interested in keeping Ben around. I definitely forget how that all went down when Ben was told that he had to kill him.

    To your point about the Widmore’s death by Ben being “larger”. I actually would’ve thought their MEETING would’ve been larger. After all, this was the first time they’d ever seen each other on the island, no? To me, that’s huge considering how big of enemies they are.

    And lastly, Brandon, are you saying you won’t recapping Sunday’s episode? Weak. I still think there’ll be things to ruminate on. Plus, “I bid you farewell” is pretty lame for your last-post sign off. Clearly it should be “see you in another life, brotha”.

    • I don’t know if Ben had been working for Smokey the whole time, but I’m pretty sure that he was working for Smokey when he killed Locke. I forgot to post this, but remember, Locke was going to kill himself, but didn’t really get a chance to, because Ben stopped him. Remember, the candidates can’t kill themselves. I think that if Locke had tried to commit suicide and was unsuccessful, it would have reaffirmed his faith in the island again. Ben had to kill him so smokey could take his form, get access to the foot of the statue, etc.

    • Well, themalty, let’s take all of this in stride:

      1. I just can’t shake that feeling about Hurley. I made a case for him as Jacob’s successor a while back, based on a number of points (his ability to speak to/see dead people, the fact that he was the only one visited by Jacob off-island AFTER the Oceanic flight, the fact that he assumed the mantle of “leader” this season, etc).

      2. Sometimes you’ve got to spell that shit out. Obviously, yes, this is the concert in question where everyone will “meet,” but more importantly is the time in which all of this is occurring in the sideways reality. What’s more, whatever happened to Des and Penny’s date?

      3. See MM’s comment below yours.

      4. No, they’ve seen each other on the island previously. Ben was the one who banished Widmore, after all. Go back to last season. I can’t remember which episode it was, but, yes, they’ve definitely interracted on the island.

      5. Dude, I’m TOTALLY blogging the finale. What, are you mental? I’m just saying it’s going to take an extra bit of time to get my head around. What’s more, I’m going back and blogging season 1 when this season ends.

  15. By the way, I can’t remember who mentioned this yesterday, about the turning of the donkey wheel, but didn’t we conclude at some point that the polar bears were the ones turning the wheel? After all, isn’t that why there was a polar bear skeleton in Tunisia (uncovered by Charlotte) with a DI collar around it?

  16. Also, I love this guy (Marc Oromaner). This is pretty brilliantly written:

    “Widmore had said that Desmond would have to make a sacrifice for the island. We know that he can stand electromagnetism. We know that the ‘light’ at the heart of the island is actually this same electromagnetism. So, putting two and two together it seems logical to conclude that Desmond will need to go down into the source of the light (led to by Jack) where he will absorb the energy and be able to fight Smokey. Having the opposite polarity of the black smoke monster (perhaps he will be a white smoke monster or light-being), once the two forces use their full powers against each other, it will cause a rift in time that will blow all the remaining Losties away to Kingdom Come and send the island back in times where it will finally sink. With the island destroyed and thrown back in time, it never existed in 2004. So all the influence it had is changed, creating the parallel timeline we’ve seen in the flash-sideways. However, since fate has a way of course correcting, certain things still need to come together. This is what Desmond is doing in the flash-sideways world. If he does not do these things, this timeline will not be stable and will collapse—see Donnie Darko for more on this concept.”

    • After the last episode, I was figuring that Desmond and probably Sawyer will sacrifice themselves at some point. I hadn’t thought about Desmond becoming Smokey, though. Also, I don’t think there’s any rule that says that Smokey has to be a bad guy. MiB happens to be an angry guy and chooses to use his powers to kill people. But it doesn’t have to be that way. Does it?

      • No, see I don’t buy what you’re saying. MiB wasn’t ALWAYS evil. In fact, just the opposite. It was NotMom who was “evil,” per se, in that she killed his real mother, lied to him, and kept him from returning “home.” Yes, he murdered NotMom, but only after she slaughtered his village and filled the wheel so as to trap him on the island. What’s more, he didn’t manifest himself as Smokey; Jacob was responsible for that.

        • MiB was an angry dude before he became Smokey – and he didn’t have any choice in becoming Smokey. Desmond seems to be completely at peace with everything right now. If he chose to become Smokey of his own free will, he could be a benevolent Smokey.

          I don’t think it will happen. But I’m not convinced that Smokey has to be a bad guy and I’m not convinced that there HAS to be a Smokey.

  17. Yeah, Mother was evil, and moreover, MiB was trapped on the island well before he was Smokey. He was trapped from day one. He was trapped in his own home. But Richie, I know what you’re saying. Can Smokey be a benevolent creature? But being Smokey is a fate worse than death. That has to bitter most people. Moreover, evil and good are both objective things. MiB doesn’t see himself as “evil incarnate.” He believes that his actions are merely a means to an end.

    Say, CB, why not do a very special blogtalk show (maybe on the LCS feed) about Lost as a series? I’m sure Larry would be happy to help you out….

    • I know I’d listen to that.

    • Well, let’s see. The finale is on Sunday. Would anyone listen to a podcast/chat on Saturday night if Larry is available?

      • Do they only stream live or can you download them for later listening? I’ve got plans on Saturday night, but I’d love to give it a listen.

      • I got a wedding to go to on Saturday night so I wouldn’t be able to listen/chat until Sunday. Maybe you do a show/chat at like 6pm on Sunday instead?

        • I’d consider doing it on Sunday pre-LOST, but no guarantees. Also, let’s just see what Larry’s got lined up. He’s got no life so it shouldn’t be too difficult.

  18. I’d listen on saturday night. And yes, they stream live and let it become available for download via the blogtalk site or itunes.

  19. Sarah Silverman sits down with Damon and Carlton:

    http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/3yco

  20. Alright, people, because you demanded it:

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lcs/2010/05/23/cousin-brandons-lost-apalooza

    Don’t make any plans between 9:30 and 11:00 tomorrow night. And, yes, we can take phone calls. The phone number is on the website.

    By all means, call in and talk LOST with me and Mike Dell.

    • Bummer, but as your cousin might say you can’t have your cake and your pie. At that point in time I’ll be in a graveyard getting ready to watch The Thing, true story (Hollywood can be pretty damned cool sometimes). I’m definitely going to download it to check it out later though.

    • Yeah, I’ll be at a wedding reception but hopefully I’ll get a chance to call in depending on how long the reception lasts or if I bail early on it.

  21. One last reminder about tomorrow night:

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/lcs/2010/05/23/cousin-brandons-lost-apalooza

    By all means, call! I don’t know what the hell I’ll be talking about.

    • I just wanted to say thanks to Laura, Major Minority, Manderson, Mitch, Larry and Cousin Dave, all of whom made calls into the LOST-apolooza podcast last night. I got very, very drunk. Good times.

      Also, a very large thanks to one Mike Dell, the hostest with the mostest.

  22. Are we going out to watch and drink during the last episodes, or are we talking about going out to watch and drink during the last episodes?

    If the latter, we’re just wasting time.

    • I’ll be watching tonight’s episode from a small cave, actually. I plan to watch by candlelight with nothing but stale bread and mead.

  23. Provided your endeavor includes weaving a tapestry utilizing a vertical loom, your choice in venue clearly makes more sense.

    Jesus, man. I can’t believe it’s coming to an end. It’s like knowing the day Yoda is to die.

    Sob… sob… whimper… whimper… sniffle… sniffle… cry. Let us all take a moment to reflect on the greatness that is LOST. Thank you for LOST, J.J. Abrams.


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